✊ Hook Stacking: A lesson from Taylor Swift on creating an ultra-catchy show

1,163 WORDS | READ TIME: 4.4 MIN

Hi friends,

Good songs are built around a clear, memorable hook.

Great songs are built around several.

And then there are songs by Taylor Swift.

The master of hook writing who brings the craft to another level.

Take We Are Never Getting Back Together.

In the first 62 seconds, Taylor drops distinct 6 hooks.

By my count, the song as a whole has 12, many of them repeating throughout.

For Taylor, this was just a warm-up, however.

In Shake It Off, she crams 10 distinct hooks into the first 60 seconds, with a grand total of 17 by song’s end.

This pattern repeats throughout all of her hits.

In each, she layers hook upon hook upon hook upon hook of every variety—melodic, lyrical, vocal, emotional, harmonic, percussive, instrumental, production-oriented, and more.

This progressive stacking of hooks results in songs with multiple opportunities to worm their way into our ears, brains, and—often—souls.

If the first hook didn’t grab you, the next one—or the one after that—will.

But for Taylor, hook crafting isn't limited to her songwriting.

As her aura has grown, each album, each distinct, defined era of her story has become a hook of its own.

And then there are the subtle winks, easter eggs, and clues for her fans to decipher—meta hooks that Taylor weaves throughout her songs, liner notes, artwork, marketing, and performance.

If you’re looking for an explanation to her success, a good place to start might be that she’s simply given us more hooks to latch onto than anyone else.

And if you want to maximize your own potential for growth, this practice of Hook Stacking is a good place to start.

💰 How a Small Podcast Consistently Makes 6-Figures A Year (& How You Can Replicate It)

If you’re an indie podcaster, you’ve probably wondered, “Can I actually make a living doing this?”

The answer is yes... but it won't happen by accident. If you want to succeed as an indie creator, you need to approach ad sales, pricing, and pitching with some savvy and some strategy, which is where my friend and former PGE client Danielle comes in.

Danielle is the host of Sex Ed with DB, and in an upcoming workshop, she's breaking down how she built a six-figure-a-year indie podcast... without a large audience by mastering the art of sponsorships—and how you can do it too.

Workshop Details ➤

Like good songs, good podcasts are built around a clear central hook.

Great shows, however—shows that vacuum up attention—are designed & constructed atop a stack of them.

On its own, any one of these hooks might be enough to attract listeners to the shows.

The combination, however, makes the show utterly irresistible.

When it comes to podcasting, hooks can be broken into two categories:

Show Level Hooks
Episode Level Hooks

Within each category, there are a series of opportunities to create hooks.

The more hooks you weave into your show, the more listeners you'll attract and retain.

Show Level Hooks

Show Topic – The topic of any show is one of the foundational hooks, with its sharpness increasing the narrower, more unique, and more distinctive it is. Within the topic, there are multiple potential sub-hooks.

Audience – The specific group of people the show is addressing the topic to. Again, the more specific and unique the audience, the sharper the hook.
Goal/Purpose – The specific promised outcome the show makes to listeners. This could be an outcome that is delivered consistently in every episode or a larger destination the show promises to take listeners to over time. Again, the more unique and specific this outcome is compared to other shows, the sharper the hook.
Method – A unique method or framework the show uses to deliver the goal or promise of the show is an additional hook that can be stacked on top of the topic.

Concept – Stacked on top of the topic is the way you explore it through your podcast, which provides another hook opportunity. The concept hook can be broken down further into two additional potential hooks:

Angle – A unique and distinctive lens you approach your primary topic through—like a show that explores the topic of podcast marketing through the lens of data for example…
Format – A show format that is distinct and refreshing compared to other shows on your topic.

Host – The host of a show can be a compelling hook if they:

Are already well-known (read: famous) to the extent that people would seek out their specific take on a topic.
Are not well-known, but have significant, highly-credible subject matter expertise that makes them a compelling person to hear from on the topic. The more experience or credibility the host has in their field, the sharper this hook becomes.
Have an unconventional background that intersects with the topic in a compelling way that makes them a fascinating, perhaps unorthodox or counter-narrative voice on the subject.

Cover Art – Artwork can be a powerful visual hook in its own right when done right.

Some of the elements of hooky artwork include professional, interesting, refreshing, unique design, being evocative of the topic, vibe, and tone of the show, being clear, and hinting at (or calling out directly) the show’s inherent tension.

Title – Truly great titles are hard to come by, but they can provide a powerful hook for a show.

The best titles are often built around a play or twist on a known phrase that is both evocative and refreshing. These titles are linguistically pleasing, tend to roll off the tongue and tell us enough about the show to pique our curiosity and lean in to look closer.

The crux of this type of titling is it can’t come off as forced, ham-handed, or trying to be clever… which it often does by all but the savviest of creators.

Description – Especially the first line—which is often all a new listener sees in a podcast app—should build on the title and cover art to provide enough new information about the show to further pull in the listener.

If the title and cover art are evocative, the first line should concretely lay out the value proposition of the show. If the title and cover art are clear, the first line of the description should evoke something bigger and deeper.

Tone/Style – In a space with shows that all feel and sound the same, a show can create a powerful hook by adopting a distinct, clearly defined tone and style. Take the aggressive, blunt, sweary, Everyone Hates Marketers, for example (a show which also has strong cover art and title hooks).

Crafting Your Hooks

Outside of the host hook, any and all of these show-level hooks can be applied to any show.

And they should be.

Do a search on a random topic in your favourite podcast app and you’ll find that most shows lack even a single strong, compelling hook.

Which is great news for you.

Because while your show likely isn’t currently making use of all of the potential show-level hooks discussed here, if you’re willing to take the practice of hook crafting seriously, you have an incredible opportunity to stand out.

And grow significantly.

In a medium like podcasting where listeners typically discover—and recommend—shows as a whole, over individual episodes, the more hooks you can stack inside your show, the better your results will be.

What’s more, an abundance of show-level hooks raises the floor of each individual episode within the show.

Said differently, with an ultra-hooky show, each episode needs to do less work to hook and retain listeners on its own.

Speaking of episodes, we’ll be breaking down episode-level hooks tomorrow.

In the meantime, hit reply and let me know one of the following:

How many of the 11(ish) hooks discussed here would you say your show has
What’s your favourite show and how many show-level hooks does it employ? As I’m building this idea out I’d love some examples to reference.

Oh, and I'll be updating the full post here if you want to refer back to it in the future to compare your show against.

Til tomorrow.

Stay Scrappy,

If you're a founder or solo business owner that feels like you've got all the pieces in place (offer, podcast, email marketing)... but they aren't working together in a cohesive system, I've got 4 slots left for 2025 in my 1:1 Podcast Growth Engine Program.

In the program, we'll do a full assessment of your show, marketing, sales system, and offer, and then design a strategy and system to bring them into alignment, to help you sell more and grow faster with less effort.

It's not an overnight process, but if you've already got the pieces in place, it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect to add $100k in revenue over the next year.

Here's who nails the bull's eye:

You're a coach, consultant, service provider, or online educator with a high-ticket offer ($5k+) that already sells consistently.
You have a stable business that pays you a solid, predictable salary (ie. you're not in "need cash now mode") and are in mid-to-long-term planning mode, looking to build out the systems and strategy to take your business to the next level over the next 2-5 years.
You've got your core business assets already established—offer, sales process, email marketing, podcast, operations—but while all of them are performing OK, none of them are really optimized... and you know you're leaving money on the table and working harder than you need to to generate revenue.
You can see all the pieces and know you've built something of real value... but don't know how to connect them all in a cohesive way.
You understand business and marketing, but could really use some outside perspective from someone who deeply understands their work (creatively, strategically, and tactically) and what they're trying to do to bounce ideas off of, challenge their assumptions, and guide them.

If that's you (or close enough), reply with the words "Growth Engine" and I'll send over all the info on how the process works.

Thanks for being a PMA Member!

Jump into the community and let us know what you need help with... or if this issue sparked a question you'd love to discuss further!

Reply anytime, I love hearing from you!